Really last post to JFF.



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送交者: COPCOP 于 2005-9-28, 14:38:49:

回答: 还想捞本?好。接着忽悠。 由 JFF 于 2005-9-28, 00:10:00:

Sorry about inputing english. See my messages below.

在DOKTORAND/IN这个问题上,我们双方对对方所说的情况基本没有异议。至于如何理解这个现象,还没达成共识,但这个已重要了。

我的观点就是德国的博士教育体系和中国或美国的很不相同,没有中国或美国的那个意义上的博士生/ Ph.D student。理由是:

1。学生就有学籍管理问题,比如,注册。在德国攻博士不需要(但容许)作为
学生注册,事实上,很多人确实也没作为学生注册。答辩前几周是要作为DOKTORAND/IN注
册的,但这不是学生的意思,是博士候选人的意思,就像美国总统竞选那样。这时候的这种注册,表明你正式进入博士学位授予的审批阶段。之前,容许一少部分人以学生身份(Ph.D student)注册,这不是学制的要求,而是大学当局对那些有志无资的年青学子的一种优惠政策.

You have to register as a student to receive your PhD (let's just use the title) degree. It is more flexible (as I always said) compared to cn, uk or us, but doesn't mean that Doktorand/in is never meant to be 'student' especially nowadays.

2。中国或美国的博士生入学明文规定要作选拔考试的,但德国没有

Do you think GREs are like the exams in China? If not, you might agree that different countries have difference systems to select their PhD students. In Germany, it is very much important to have a good mark (average>1.5 or so, it dependents) to get picked up by the professors - here comes the difference: usually, althought recently it is prone to be modified, German professors/PDs select candidates by their own, unlike in the US where the Graduate Schools do or GS/prof. co-do in most cases.

3。中国或美国的博士生是要选课和考试的,但德国没有。

As I said, that is because the classes have been taken during the uni study. I have no time to go details but if you are interested I can provide you, later, a list of classes of the UCSD under and that of a German uni (majors in Biology/Economics). You compare.

You must know that a German Diploma/Magister (the first degree one can receive froma German Uni) is equal to a UK/CN Master.

没有学籍管理,不要求入学选拔考试,不要求修学分。没了这三条你还要坚持说那
是学生,那就说吧,江青还说他是毛主席的好学生呢.

As I mentioned above, you make your decision.

你有那个TITLE说明什么呢?我本不想说的,你硬逼我说高见,那我就高见一回,不
要生气。很简单,说明你没有一个更好的TITLE。我们小时候,放学回去要排队走路
的。我这人在班里连个组长也没混上,后来老师为了调动我的积极性,给我封了个
路队长。这样我也就是长字号了,英文就是有个TITLE 了。
你能因为我有个路队长的TITLE 就说我们学校是有八路军武工队的建制?

No comment. No offence.

关于你的德国的博士有没有德国的FLAVOR问题,不是几千字就能把你说明白的。这
种东西你一时半会还体会不出。我不想说了。

Good for you.

>>我在德国拿了个博士,我太太在德国拿的DIPLOM,如果我们没资格评论一下德>>国
的教育体制,试问一下,你凭什么呢?光凭在啤酒节上的道听途说? 还是你是>>德国教
育部官员, 专门管德国教育体制的?

你们夫妇都在德国拿到了学位,首先向你们祝贺!
你们对德国的教育体制自然有一定的了解,从你们的贴子中
也能看出。你们说的话的态度也比较老实。是不是因为看到我在这里就不得而知了。
但是,你们对德国的教育体制的了解和见解,目前还不具备和我辩论的资格。

You also know something about it. A little too experience-based.


我说三条理由:
1。注册,上课这么一目了然的事还跟我搅了两天。

It was you who 还跟我搅了两天. I am really giving up now. Ciao.

2。什么德国的大学要六年而美国只要四年。我相信,一般的德国博士,
是看不出你这种外行话的。你们到现在也不知道错在哪理,尽管你太太在德国
拿了DIPLOM.

See upper/below.

3。什么他们(德国)不要考试是因为他们在大学里把课都读完了。这种想当然的
蠢话以后要说可以,但劝你不要打出德国博士的招牌。你丢得起这人,别人丢不起。Keep in mind, never try to fool people like me.
还有不要让你太太冒用你的ID和我辩论。因为,我对一个德国博士说话的逻辑是有
一定期待的.

你问我有什么资格来说这些,掂量一下我说的一些事实和道理你应该能得出答案。
如果有困难,给你一个友情提示,能知道德国的医学博士学位的论文几个月可以做
出的人你认识吗?你笑话“啤酒节上的道听途说”?告诉你吧,你对德国人的了解,
连门还没找到呢,你在那里再呆10年也没用,除非,你开始学喝啤酒.

I personally also lived in Germany for a long time although I do not drink beer since that is allergic to me. My wife is a German and was born in Germany, a city famous for its autos. She lived in Beijing for a long time but educated in Germany (Major Chinese at Uni-Heidelberg). She is a bilingual (CN/DE).

No offence, all I want to say is that we might also know something about Germany/German Edu Sys. Not only experience.



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