From hchen@msi.umn.edu Sat Jan 11 18:43 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA24365 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA24998 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:43:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA18135 for shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:43:25 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701112343.RAA18135@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: XYS9701 To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shi-min Fang) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:43:23 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199701110616.BAA19809@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 11, 97 01:16:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 563 Status: RO zhouzi, we had very bad weather here, so the company has been closed. with my modem and remote link, it is very in- efficient to make homepage. would you please, then, divide this issue and make an html sort of numbering for each item/article, like the DemoChina. surely i will do my best, but i see it really inefficient. you can call up me at home XXXXXXXXXX, or you can call up xiaohui directly at XXXXXXXXXXXXX late tonight. but i think the layout is very clear now, you may minimize the call to allow him to concentrate more. best! --hc From hchen@msi.umn.edu Sun Jan 12 15:29 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA09340 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:29:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA26921; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:29:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id OAA24480; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:29:07 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701122029.OAA24480@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Web Version To: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:29:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu In-Reply-To: from "Sanyee Tang" at Jan 5, 97 00:27:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 550 Status: RO zhouzi and sanyee, i am very grateful that jiyi louzhu made the xys ready last night. zhouzi, thank you for the phone call but you may stop that work at the moment now. the work left: we must proof read the web sample and download it as soon as possible, make corrections, pass it and keep the passed one as template for a while. zhouzi: if possible, please make all necessary links for this issue: say if the author agrees, put their webpage as address. okay, i feel relieved. sanyee may inform zhuoying and bambooman for conments too. --hc From hchen@msi.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 00:26 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id AAA01383 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA27793; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:26:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id XAA24771; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:24:44 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701130524.XAA24771@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: sample To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, jliao@vnet.ibm.com, Yi@tu-harburg.d400.de, Sanyee_Tang@bbs.mindlink.net Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:24:43 -0600 (CST) Cc: hcne@msi.umn.edu, hchen@msi.umn.edu (Hao Chen), xli@asia2.aan.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 902 Status: RO xys editorial board, first, please take a quick look at web-design of 9701: http://www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample second, please make a little bit suggestion to the credit of AAN.NET, especially xli. my suggestion is: put either his name or AAN into "this issue art designers" along with zhuoying. third, please give CC a place for his logo design. fourth, i want to get rid of "proofreading" list, the name list is long and ugly. can zhouzi/sanyee send a query to request the name change for a-fei, gu-ping, hui-ren, lang-ren? if they still do not respond, i may delete their names fifth, i took the reponsibility for the coordination and version control. please report your comments to me ASAP. wednesday i will be out of town. the final version will be delivered to AAN.NET prior to wendnesday noontime. PLEASE help me send this request to xiao chen and other editorial members. thanks! --hc From chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM Mon Jan 13 12:44 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA05317 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:44:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA73936 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:43:38 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA229478 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:43:36 GMT Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.Sun.COM [192.9.25.5]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA38994 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:43:35 -0600 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by venus.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id JAA13585 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:43:04 -0800 Received: from nash.eng.sun.com by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id JAA26231; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:43:00 -0800 Received: from illinois.eng.sun.com by nash.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA04883; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:43:51 -0800 Received: by illinois.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA13819; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:43:03 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:43:03 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Message-Id: <199701131743.JAA13819@illinois.eng.sun.com> To: xys@uiuc.edu Subject: comments on XYS web page design X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Type: text Content-Length: 795 Status: RO ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From xia@csrd.uiuc.edu Sat Jan 11 20:53:33 1997 To: zzhang@hpl.hp.edu Subject: comments on XYS web page design Cc: xia@csrd.uiuc.edu Comrades, I visited XYS web site at www.cus.ca and have some comment on the graphic design. 1) Current single page should break in multiple pages. It helps page design. Each column per page is the best breakdown. 2) The column images are good but do not the background well. If the single page breaks into per column page, the background will be different from the column to column. 3) The XYS logo image doesn't look like a logo now. I think Xiaohui at aan did the best logo image well fitted for web page. Just my 0.02. Have to go for baby sitting. Later, Chun Xia ----- End Included Message ----- From chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM Mon Jan 13 18:12 EST 1997 Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.Sun.COM [192.9.25.5]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA09746 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by venus.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id PAA21741; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:11:24 -0800 Received: from nash.eng.sun.com by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id PAA17373; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:11:16 -0800 Received: from illinois.eng.sun.com by nash.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA11789; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:12:05 -0800 Received: by illinois.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA14344; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:11:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:11:19 -0800 From: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Message-Id: <199701132311.PAA14344@illinois.eng.sun.com> To: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com, hchen@msi.umn.edu Subject: Re: My questions (fwd) Cc: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xys@uiuc.edu, chun@Eng.Sun.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Type: text Content-Length: 436 Status: RO The design Hao did in www.msi.unm.edu/~hchen/sample is nice. The separate background for the table of content makes it easy to read. However, the words the bottom (specially those URLs in red color) are not clear enough because of flashy background pattern. I think you can simply try a white toned background (e.g. BGCOLOR=#F0F0E8) and make it very neat. The columns subheading images are much better than in www.cus.ca site. Chun Xia From hchen@msi.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 18:48 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA13994 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA75964 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:41 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA189154 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:45:40 GMT Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA32412 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:36 -0600 Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03195; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:35 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA01609; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:31 -0600 (CST) X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701132345.RAA01609@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: My questions (fwd) To: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:29 -0600 (CST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: <199701132311.PAA14344@illinois.eng.sun.com> from "Chun Xia" at Jan 13, 97 03:11:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1327 Status: RO editorial board, 1, i agree with chun xia that the URL's really ugly, and i feel some link won't work (say, PS in uiuc). i will make it as a version without explicit URL, so people may feel better design. it is in changing now, for the moment, i put links to the site i know working, hope it is not a political issue as it is not explicit anyway. 2, i delete most editors' names, as it is long and ugly. i myself won't take any credit, jiyilouozhu won't take any. for the very moment i won't put any designers name on, so no zhuo-ying's name. 3, i just got time to start modifying today, it is really louzhu's personal desire that xys can have a version control so he can talk through. given such a tight job over network, no control will fail. sanyee mentioned there are other designs available, can we save them for next issue? truly, --hc > >The design Hao did in www.msi.unm.edu/~hchen/sample is nice. The separate >background for the table of content makes it easy to read. However, the >words the bottom (specially those URLs in red color) are not clear enough >because of flashy background pattern. I think you can simply try a white >toned background (e.g. BGCOLOR=#F0F0E8) and make it very neat. The columns >subheading images are much better than in www.cus.ca site. >Chun Xia > From chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM Mon Jan 13 20:37 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA28623 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA76708 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:36:48 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA144292 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:36:48 GMT Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.Sun.COM [192.9.25.5]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA70552 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:36:46 -0600 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by venus.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id RAA04376 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:36:15 -0800 Received: from nash.eng.sun.com by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id RAA19193; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:36:08 -0800 Received: from illinois.eng.sun.com by nash.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA14403; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:36:50 -0800 Received: by illinois.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA14431; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:36:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:36:04 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Message-Id: <199701140136.RAA14431@illinois.eng.sun.com> To: xys@uiuc.edu Subject: Re: My questions (fwd) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Type: text Content-Length: 363 Status: RO Zhouzi, I visited the site you created. The cover page looks nice, however, the text doesn't read clearly agaist the patterned background. If you guys really like the patterned background, please ask LouZhu make the color much lighter. I believe you need add more links (current/back issues etc) at the cover page. Probably you are doing this right now. Chun From Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.net Mon Jan 13 21:27 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA05015 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA75880 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:27:05 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA270018 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:27:05 GMT Received: from rsoft.mindlink.net (mindlink.net [204.174.16.1]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA75946 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:27:03 -0600 Received: from bbs by rsoft.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0vjyab-0000EC-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:27:01 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 18:22:20 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu To: xys@uiuc.edu Subject: New Wev Versions From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Message-Id: Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1484 Status: RO Colleagues: Xiaohui's design is good enough to me, Zhouzi's is fine. However, in the future, you guys had better resist the temptation to do everything by yourselves :-). At the moment, ZhuoYing apparently doesn't have desired tools, such as different fonts, so can we let Howl and Xiaohui take the charge and avoid confusion? The following is my comments. Don't use red or yellow colour for small fonts, they are not very readable. Actually we don't need that many colours. Why don't simply use black or blue for all text? I really don't think every article merits a picture :-). There are two dangers. (1) The designer may give a very nice picture to a not that well-written article. To me, it doesn't make sense. An excellent article can bear a poor picture; vice versa, it looks like bad advertising :-), especially when the picture wraps the title. I think only articles of high quality should be formatted with pictures, as a mark of editor's recommendation (2) Zhouzi's taste is fine. But down the road we may have a designer who is to enthusiastic in graphics and unknowingly makes XYS looks like a virtual Chinese restaurant :-). We already have one, MultiWorld, that is enough. My point is to keep things simple. Don't throw in too much frills and don't spend too much time :-). What is the difference between filthy rich and lo.g-lineage aristocrat? The latter doesn't overdo the dressing, and people call it elegance. -- Sanyee From jmarcr@unb.ca Mon Jan 13 22:16 EST 1997 Received: from unb.ca (hermes.csd.unb.ca [131.202.3.20]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA10126 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jmarcr@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca [131.202.3.10]) by unb.ca (8.7.6/961016-08:40) id XAA29658 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:16:26 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost by jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (8.8.4/960921-23:08) id XAA08700; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:16:25 -0400 (AST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:16:25 -0400 (AST) From: A Ship at Sea X-Sender: jmarcr@jupiter To: Shi-min Fang Subject: Your designs. In-Reply-To: <199701131051.FAA19830@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 450 Status: RO > Comments and suggetions are welcome. > > zhouzi Some pictures look very nice. But the size is not matching the page. They are too high and not wide enough. The image of T.V. set for the Ten Pieces of News in the Chinese net looked strange, the frame of the T.V. looks like made of wood. The picture for Su`s article does not match the content. The content is about how to dress, but not about how to undress. :-) An effient job. zhuoying From hchen@msi.umn.edu Tue Jan 14 10:49 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA07730 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06226 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA07935 for shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:56 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701141548.JAA07935@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: New Wev Versions To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shi-min Fang) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:55 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199701140838.DAA06511@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 14, 97 03:38:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 510 Status: RO zhouzi, i just read the xys9701.hz, obviously the typo in the front page has not been corrected (i corrected them wheni put it in web page). since this is the first web version, i hope you can be more restricted on this one. also, i noticed there is huge change in news section, please make sure all of xys-board is aware of this change. especially xiaochen should know. i make all of gb,hz,ps ready now, so that those links can be directed to this site as long as you ask me to open the permission. --hc From chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM Tue Jan 14 13:30 EST 1997 Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.Sun.COM [192.9.25.5]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA07704 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:30:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by venus.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id KAA22375; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:28:51 -0800 Received: from nash.eng.sun.com by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id KAA29270; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:28:43 -0800 Received: from illinois.eng.sun.com by nash.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA21362; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:29:28 -0800 Received: by illinois.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA14592; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:28:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:28:41 -0800 From: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Message-Id: <199701141828.KAA14592@illinois.eng.sun.com> To: jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM, shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xli@asia2.aan.net, hchen@msi.umn.edu Subject: Re: take_a_look Cc: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Type: text Content-Length: 862 Status: RO This version is nice. I am trying to fine tune the color scheme. My big problem is that my graphic card is 8bit and the stupid Sun workstation messing up the color map sometime. Again, I'd like to point out the logo issue is not close. The current one is not a logo but a heading design. We need to work out a logo finally. ChunXia > From hchen@msi.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 20:48:26 1997 > Subject: take_a_look > To: jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.eng.sun.com, > shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xli@asia2.aan.net > Cc: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > okay, i followed most of your all advice, and it is going > to be this way for a while. please take a look at the > http://www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample > > please refer other links for e-magazines to me. > > best! > --hc > From xli@asia2.aan.net Tue Jan 14 15:32 EST 1997 Received: from aan.net (root@[206.135.33.3]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA00416 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:32:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from frank.aan.net ([206.135.33.179]) by aan.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07482; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:57:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBED2D.1717@asia2.aan.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:31:41 -0800 From: "Henry X. H. Li" Reply-To: xli@aan.net Organization: AAN.NET X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chun Xia CC: jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, hchen@msi.umn.edu, hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu Subject: Re: take_a_look References: <199701141828.KAA14592@illinois.eng.sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 1043 Status: RO The backgroung color and line spacing has been fine tuned. Please take a look at http://www.aan.net/show/xys/ . XH Chun Xia wrote: > > This version is nice. I am trying to fine tune the color scheme. > My big problem is that my graphic card is 8bit and the stupid Sun workstation > messing up the color map sometime. > Again, I'd like to point out the logo issue is not close. The current > one is not a logo but a heading design. We need to work out a logo finally. > ChunXia > > > From hchen@msi.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 20:48:26 1997 > > Subject: take_a_look > > To: jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.eng.sun.com, > > shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xli@asia2.aan.net > > Cc: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > okay, i followed most of your all advice, and it is going > > to be this way for a while. please take a look at the > > http://www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample > > > > please refer other links for e-magazines to me. > > > > best! > > --hc > > From hchen@msi.umn.edu Tue Jan 14 17:18 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA21184 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08716; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:18:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA08301; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:17:44 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701142217.QAA08301@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: New Wev Versions To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shi-min Fang) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:17:43 -0600 (CST) Cc: xli@asia2.aan.net In-Reply-To: <199701142016.PAA27690@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 14, 97 03:16:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 948 Status: RO > >By the way, Lou Zhu fixes the length of table. That's >a bad idea, because when people use diferent font size, it's a mess. That's >what happened in my screen. I removed the length restriction in my version. > > zhouzi > zhouzi, i do not know you refer to which version of change, but so far all fine tunes are made through sync between louzhu and me, so it looks at least okay for both a remote site and author site. i realize obsolete version of browsers can have totally strange view of a site, which i believe you are having (from the color choice you made). if so, please update them as they are free. i won't be around soon, so it is my desire that you put your name in, you can also put all related person's names on as designer (including xiaohui, old rain, chun xia, zhuo ying, and surely CC and sanyee). the news order will be yours, and louzhu will publish it tonight the same time you announce and post netnews. thanks. --hc From xli@asia2.aan.net Tue Jan 14 18:20 EST 1997 Received: from aan.net (root@asia2.aan.net [206.135.33.3]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA01697 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from frank.aan.net ([206.135.33.179]) by aan.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA09049; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:28:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC1082.A64@asia2.aan.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:02:26 -0800 From: "Henry, X. H. Li" Reply-To: xli@aan.net Organization: AAN.NET X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hao Chen CC: Shi-min Fang Subject: Re: New Wev Versions References: <199701142217.QAA08301@s13.msi.umn.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 1155 Status: RO Zhou Zi: Could you please call me at 800 777-club(2582) Ext. (9)1082? We need to solve the final issues by 12:00pm PST. Right? Xiaohui Hao Chen wrote: > > > > >By the way, Lou Zhu fixes the length of table. That's > >a bad idea, because when people use diferent font size, it's a mess. That's > >what happened in my screen. I removed the length restriction in my version. > > > > zhouzi > > > zhouzi, > > i do not know you refer to which version of change, but so far > all fine tunes are made through sync between louzhu and me, so > it looks at least okay for both a remote site and author site. > > i realize obsolete version of browsers can have totally strange > view of a site, which i believe you are having (from the color > choice you made). if so, please update them as they are free. > > i won't be around soon, so it is my desire that you put your > name in, you can also put all related person's names on as > designer (including xiaohui, old rain, chun xia, zhuo ying, > and surely CC and sanyee). the news order will be yours, and > louzhu will publish it tonight the same time you announce and > post netnews. > > thanks. > --hc From Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.net Wed Jan 15 02:12 EST 1997 Received: from rsoft.mindlink.net (mindlink.net [204.174.16.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA28564 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:11:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from bbs by rsoft.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0vkPVx-0005Zm-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:12:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 23:08:24 -0800 To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Subject: Private Chat From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Message-Id: Content-Type: text Content-Length: 469 Status: RO Zhouzi: This web stuff got quite serious. I don't understand why you have to insist in your own design. It doesn't make sense to do everything by oneself, down the road, we need others collaboration. Shaohui's is pretty good, even Chun Xia said so. People also concern about the copyright of the pictures you use. No one likes to see a split of the XYS Board, but if you annoy too many people, the danger is there. -- Sanyee From shif Wed Jan 15 02:23 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id CAA29025; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:23:03 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701150723.CAA29025@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: New Wev Versions To: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:23:03 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: from "Sanyee Tang" at Jan 13, 97 06:22:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 910 Status: RO I have finished the web version. It's in www.xys.aan.net/mm/index.html and will be linked to XYS home page later. Based on the comments and suggestions I received, I did the following changes: 1) Made the the pictures smaller and wider; 2) Added chime music (Cornell Alma Mater) to Han San's article, so it's more close to "Multimedia". 3) Since PC version of Netscape cannot wrap Chinese automatically (while Mac and Unix versions can), I also fixed the length of line ( There is a simple way to do this: just use 
 and
and all the returns and blank lines we've already had will be recognized. You don't need to put
and

at the end of every line as Lou Zhu did.) 4) Since Lou Zhu doesn't allow me to use any fonts and buttons he made, I re-draw most of the pictures with new fonts and made all of the buttons by myself. I also use the original logo (the one C.C. draw). zhouzi From owner-xys-friends-outgoing@cc.rochester.edu Wed Jan 15 09:39 EST 1997 Received: from galileo.cc.rochester.edu (majord@galileo.cc.rochester.edu [128.151.224.6]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA26190; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (majord@localhost) by galileo.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.6.4) id JAA20406 for xys-friends-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:38:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:37:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701151437.JAA08887@jims.umd.edu> From: Zhiping You To: xys-friends@cc.rochester.edu Subject: Re: ~{PBSoK?!06`C=Le!10f~} Sender: owner-xys-friends@cc.rochester.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 412 Status: RO > ~{4SUbR;FZFp#,PBSoK?Am3vR;8v!06`C=Le!10f1>#,FdJ5R2>MJGR;8v~}web > ~{0f1>#,TZ~}http://www.xys.aan.net/mm/index.html > ~{Gk4s+SM#-#-~} From owner-xys-friends-outgoing@cc.rochester.edu Wed Jan 15 09:48 EST 1997 Received: from galileo.cc.rochester.edu (majord@galileo.cc.rochester.edu [128.151.224.6]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA27130; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:48:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (majord@localhost) by galileo.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.6.4) id JAA20606 for xys-friends-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:48:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:46:49 +0800 (SST) From: Xu Donghua To: Zhiping You cc: xys-friends@cc.rochester.edu Subject: Re: ~{PBSoK?!06`C=Le!10f~} In-Reply-To: <199701151437.JAA08887@jims.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-xys-friends@cc.rochester.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 194 Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Zhiping You wrote: > Good job! Congratulations! Yes, and better add an email link to each author under each article so that a reader can email the author conveniently. From hchen@msi.umn.edu Wed Jan 15 10:09 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA29479 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:09:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11852; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:09:26 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA14579; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:08:31 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701151508.JAA14579@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: take_a_look To: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu (Hao Chen) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:08:30 -0600 (CST) Cc: jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM, shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xli@asia2.aan.net, hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <199701140447.WAA01857@s13.msi.umn.edu> from "Hao Chen" at Jan 13, 97 10:47:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 906 Status: RO to whom may this concern, CC has expressed his concern that some of his artwork is contaminated by unwanted party. he thus asked me to surrogate author-right for using, polishing his already withdrawed logo design for xys. i used it, asking trusted party for polishing, and i never admit third party to take over by secretly downloading it to use it, especially when such a use is against CC's will. i personally am not willing to associate to any magazine simply by downloading photos/designs without even putting authors' names on, not to mention to get their permission. inferior design/artwork can only show bad taste in art and big ego in personality. i detest it. --hc > >okay, i followed most of your all advice, and it is going >to be this way for a while. please take a look at the > http://www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample > >please refer other links for e-magazines to me. > >best! >--hc > From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Wed Jan 15 21:17 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA06772 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA78572 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:16:59 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA273400 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:16:59 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA204266 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:16:56 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA189141015; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:16:56 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA092741030; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:17:10 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701160217.AA092741030@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: New web page...? To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:17:10 PST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6743 Status: RO Good works in both site, but neither is perfect though. The best will always come from blending the best of each. So here.... I prefer the design @ Hawl's site, and the fine-touches like the pictures etc and less formatting bugs at Zhouzi's site. The xys@aan page's logo is especially problematic, it looks like an ad for some concentration camp. :) We still don't have a logo. A logo has to be very abstract and symbolic. Chun designed a logo for OT and I found it to be one of the best in the net. I am attaching it as below just for your reference. The problem with XYS's logo, as I was told by Chun, is because the 3 Hanzi by Luxun virtually eliminate any possibilities of abstracting further. His suggestion is to make the 3 chars vertical instead of hironzontal, and then apply some pattern to confine the them. He's tried couple of designs and gave up after several trials. Anyhow, take a look at the gif of OT and maybe hopefully we can get some idea. It looks like we don't have a official web page yet. I am assuming that by the current flow it looks like every EE is going to design his/her(:) own. A formal page has to be agreed upon at least within the board. This didn't happen and that's why I am assuming every of us would have the pleasure(ha!) of defining his/her own, which is fine with me if 1), somebody else is doing it or 2) HP doubles my vacaiton time. :) -zheng >From chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM Tue Jan 14 11:30 PST 1997 ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: gif-file X-Sun-Data-Description: gif-file X-Sun-Data-Name: otlogoC1.gif X-Sun-Encoding-Info: uuencode X-Sun-Content-Lines: 81 begin 600 otlogoC1.gif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end -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From shif Thu Jan 16 16:18 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id QAA04325; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:17:49 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701162117.QAA04325@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: take_a_look To: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:17:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu, hchen@msi.umn.edu, jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM, xli@asia2.aan.net, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701161759.JAA16793@illinois.eng.sun.com> from "Chun Xia" at Jan 16, 97 09:59:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1723 Status: RO > What's wrong with the board? This is not a board. In fact, here only Sanyee and I serve in XYS board. This list was created by someone who believes XYS board should be excluded from the discussion of XYS web version, and by someone who thinks those XYS editors with "bad" pennames should be removed from the editors list. > I believe that we are playing war game just like kids, how come somebody > grabs dady's loaded riffle? > Can we authorize some ownership? We do this in industry for complicated > project and management. I will propose same idea here: > Xiaohui has full responsibility of web pages. He should coordinate all > the resources and makes his decision, unless we need a vote. > Why? He is professional web master and has strong art background. > All of us should function as consultants, proposing ideas, submitting > draft design, critique other's artwork... but never finalize anything. > If you think this makes sense, let's do a vote. Anybody's contributions are always welcome. However, if anyone wants to coordinate, authorize or manage any XYS bussiness, he should applies to join XYS board first, and he should take the responsibility to associate his name with XYS. > > ChunXia > P.S. I don't want spend any energy on politics at my spare time, I got enough > at work! > Me either. I didn't realize there is politics going underground on this web issue until two days ago. My point is very clear: if anyone enjoys to play political games everywhere, I am sure he won't find the playyard in XYS. Now the web version of this issue has been published, and I also asked people to visit the other version. The users' responses are very clear if you read xys-friends. zhouzi From shif Thu Jan 16 16:54 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id QAA12991; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701162154.QAA12991@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: your account To: root@aan.net (System Administrator) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:54:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: root@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, xli@aan.net, xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199612201619.IAA12653@aan.net> from "System Administrator" at Dec 20, 96 08:19:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1870 Status: RO > > Dear Mr. Zhouzi : > > Yesterday night, our computer system went down without apparent > reason. This have caused unrecoverable loss on our network and > cutomers' data. We have studied all log files and were reported that you > worked on tasks concerning system configurations during that time. > Your email to one of our users was attached below for the reference. > > Please send me email at your earlist convenience what you meant > "trick" in your email. > > Meanwhile, we have to temporarily disable your account until we will > find out if your actions were the direct cause of the shutdown. > I tried to update my html files in my account "username xys" in your machine but failed. I found out the reason is because the fileuser was changed to "83" instead of "xys" by somebody. The trick I used to recover the file permission is very simple, e.g.: > cp index.html index.bak > mv index.bak index.html > overwrite index.html ? y Then the fileuser of index.html was back to "xys" so I could modify it. I don't think what I did would change any system configurations in your machine and could cause crash. Since you said you have a log file reporting that I changed your machine configuration which is very unlikely since I don't have root access in your machine, I suggest you to attach it and let me have a look. And I don't know why you reported this to the admin sys of my mailbox account in University of Rochester, because what I did have nothing to do with my mailbox account except using it to send a mail to you to report my account problem in your machine. And since there is not trust exists between aan.net and xys magazine, I don't think there is any possibility for the further cooperation between aan.net and xys magazine, therefore I suggest to the xys board to remove xys homepage from your machine to another machine. zhouzi From shif Thu Jan 16 18:15 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id SAA00435; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:14:57 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701162314.SAA00435@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: important: about the treaty with ann.net To: sanyee_tang@mindlink.bc.ca, pckoo@cat.syr.edu, Z.H.Xie@ukc.ac.uk, YANG@D0NYU2.FNAL.GOV, zpzhang@math.princeton.edu, shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com, xichen@ix.netcom.com, jliao@vnet.ibm.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:14:56 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1697 Status: RO ~{Ub7bPEV1=SKM5=8wOVHN1`N/6x2;JGKM5=~}xys@uiuc.edu~{JGRrN*SPMbHKLX1p~} ~{JGQGC@5D6zD?TZIOCf!#M2;D\SCAK#,NR=(Ri~} ~{4SOVTZFp4su5C#,KyN=QGC@T^Vz6`C=Le0fV.JB#,MjH+JGQGC@Ok?XVF!6PBSo~} ~{K?!75DR;8vRuD1#,M4S~} ~{1`<-2?C{5%VPI>3}JGFd6~#,R*GsRT6`C=Le0fCfH!4zPBSoK?\>xAKK{CG5DR*Gs:s#,K{CG2IH!AKUbP)10AS5DP!6/Ww#:~} ~{R;!"TZ!6PBSoK?!7<4=+3v0f5D51LlMmIO#,K{CG8D1dAKTZK{CG5D;zFwIO5DPBSo~} ~{K?UK:E5DND<~J9SCH(#,OkJ9NRN^7(8D6/@oCf5DND<~!#~} ~{6~!"TZK{CG7"OVUb<~JBC;Wv:C#,NRHTH;D\9;8D6/FdVP5DND<~J1#,K{CG9X~} ~{5tAKPBSoK?5DUK:E!#~} ~{H}!"K{CGOrNR5DO5M39\@mT1V8?XNR~}hack~{K{CG5D;zFw#,5u5CJG2;?ID\TY:OWwOBH%5D!#PR:CNRCG;9N4SkK{CGG)~} ~{T<#,V;JGR;8v>}WSP-6(#,K{CG5DKyWwKyN*}WS#,NRCGWTH;2;~} ~{1XWqJXP-6(!#Rr4KNR=(RiA"<4VPV9Ub8vP-6(#,0Q6`C=Le7E5=FdK|;zFw#,~} ~{2;TYSCQGC@5D;zFwWv!3!#~} ~{QGC@RQM~P29}K{CG=+7VAQ!6PBSoK?!7;rT^Vz440lPBTSV>#,6T4KNRCGR2R*~} ~{SPPD@mW<18!#NR8vHKHON*#,K34SK{CGSkK{CG:OWwSP:&N^Rf#,SkK{~} ~{CG>vAQR22;;aSPJ2C4KpJ'!#UbJGR;8v=LQ5#,RT:sNRCGSkILHK4r=;5@R;6(~} ~{R*8|!?l1mJ>Rb<{!#4KMb;9SP8vVR8f#:~} ~{HtRT:sSPK-;9Sk:?4r=;5@#,R*6`At8vPDQ[!#UbR22;JGNR5ZR;4N3TK{5D?w!#~} ~{AmMb#,Hg9{W*G)V$K3@{5D;0#,H}TB3uNR=+5=J%5XQG8gWv2)J?:s#,OVTZ;9~} ~{SPJ1MDQK5AK!#~} ~{7=V[WS~} From shif Thu Jan 16 20:16 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id UAA20220; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:16:06 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701170116.UAA20220@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: take_a_look To: chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM (Chun Xia) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:16:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu, hchen@msi.umn.edu, jmarcr@unb.ca, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM, xli@asia2.aan.net, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701161759.JAA16793@illinois.eng.sun.com> from "Chun Xia" at Jan 16, 97 09:59:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1098 Status: RO This issue finally comes to an end, and it's much uglier than what I expected. Today, the sys admin of aan.net reported to the sys admin of University of Rochester that last night I "possibly" hacked and crashed aan.net and caused the lost of their customers' data, therefore they closed xys account in aan.net. They said their log file reports this, but they didn't show it. And I don't know why this has anything to do with University of Rochester. Frankly, aan.net has totally lost its reputation and credibility to me after doing this, and I don't see any possibilities that we can have any further cooperation. And since the xys account in aan.net has been closed, apparently the web version of xys will be immediatly moved to another machine, therefore anything will happen in aan.net has nothing to do with xys and xys web version has nothing to do with aan.net and anyone related to aan.net. And, groundless accusing me of hacking and crashing machine without any evidence is an insult to me, let alone reported this to my sys admin. Therefore, aan.net owes me an apology. zhouzi From zpzhang@math.Princeton.EDU Thu Jan 16 23:33 EST 1997 Received: from and.Princeton.EDU (root@and.Princeton.EDU [128.112.16.144]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA17172 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from tea.Princeton.EDU (zpzhang@tea.Princeton.EDU [128.112.16.7]) by and.Princeton.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA02369; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:18:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (zpzhang@localhost) by tea.Princeton.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA09375; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:18:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Zhaohui P. Zhang" To: Shi-min Fang cc: sanyee_tang@mindlink.bc.ca, pckoo@cat.syr.edu, Z.H.Xie@ukc.ac.uk, YANG@D0NYU2.FNAL.GOV, shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com, xichen@ix.netcom.com, jliao@vnet.ibm.com Subject: Re: important: about the treaty with ann.net In-Reply-To: <199701162314.SAA00435@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 362 Status: RO Zhouzi, sorry to hear what has happened. I did not follow up the AAN deal from the beginning, but if they try to associate their support with interference with the operation of the magazine I think we should just thank them and go separate. If there is no misunderstanding, it is ridiculous that they asked some of us to drop "indecent" pennames. a-fei From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Fri Jan 17 03:29 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id DAA07744 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:29:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA81712 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:29:41 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA244404 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:29:41 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA15022 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:29:40 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA102449779; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:29:39 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA122199798; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:29:58 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701170829.AA122199798@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Web page problem etc. To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:29:58 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 3104 Status: RO This month (almost?) marks the two year anniversary of XYS, and is the innitial launch of the XYS web page. However, instead of celebration, we are tangled with some strange struggling. That's quite ridiculous. It will be really fun if I can play some mud here. :( Unfortunately, it looks like some of the problems renders a somewhat more painful resolving process. Here are just two of them: 1) the coodination with AAN and 2) whether the current Web page would still need more refinement. Please hold on delivering the bye-bye letter to AAN. Because my answers to both of the questions happen to be Yes. And yes, we shall discuss and debate them further. The problem associated with the AAN Web page was embeded in the very process of creating it. There has been serious misconduct within which, and I am not refering to any particular party yet, as I shall explain. In order to reach any agreement, we have to learn both sides of the story. We have heard the version of Zhouzi's, and I am inviting Hawl to submit his. Before that happens, the XYS-AAN resolution has to be pending. The argument of our "penname" being disliked by AAN's boss and there lies the ulitmate hassle is groundless, because if you check out both versions of the Web page, all our pennames are there just fine. So drop this argument and let's hit the core -- bring up the big picture ASAP in order to prevent the deadlock. As for the Web page, which version is more "artistic", "professional" etc. again depends on your clicking out both pages. As I mentioned in an earlier message, none is perfect from my point of view. The AAN web page I was then checking out is at Hawl's site, a more update one is at http://www.aan.net/show/xys Which one I think is better? This one, purely objective. Though Zhouzi's is quite close and has its attractive points as well. Following that, the current one needs improvement. Provided, that there is a point of improving it. Let's at least have these two things straightened up and quickly move on. There is bigger challenge waiting for us other than this Web version. Taking the advantage of the Web is a humongous task. And actually Zhouzi's previous message of the XYS-web version intruding the formal XYS issue raises a good point? Why shouldn't we take on the Web and do something more creative? What's the danger after all? Please just drop this one for now, and we'll come back to it later. I have always thought Hawl is on the board. A while back in a message I sent to the board I "announced" Hawl's back. As far as I can recall, there is none follow up message, including Hawl himself, that denies that. So Hawl must be kept within this discussion. Especially we are counting on his version of the story to reach the resolution. Stay cool please. :) -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From shif Fri Jan 17 04:25 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id EAA11874; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:14:24 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701170914.EAA11874@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Web page problem etc. To: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com (Zheng Zhang) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:14:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701170829.AA122199798@simpler.hpl.hp.com> from "Zheng Zhang" at Jan 17, 97 00:29:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 3597 Status: RO > > This month (almost?) marks the two year anniversary of XYS, and is the Three-year anniversary. > innitial launch of the XYS web page. However, instead of celebration, we > are tangled with some strange struggling. That's quite ridiculous. I thought it was ridiculous, but I don't think so now. > Before that happens, the XYS-AAN resolution has to be pending. The argument > of our "penname" being disliked by AAN's boss and there lies the ulitmate > hassle is groundless, because if you check out both versions of the Web page, > all our pennames are there just fine. So drop this argument and let's hit check http://www.aan.net/show/xys and this is what I all got: ~{1>FZ1`<-#:7=V[WS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~{Is8e#:!!!!I"RKIz!"P%3>!"VqHK~} Other editors' names have gone. They are not "fine". In http;//www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample/, there is not editor list. Only my version contains the whole list in the cover page. > http://www.aan.net/show/xys > > Which one I think is better? This one, purely objective. Though Zhouzi's is If you think this one is better, I have no problem if you use it as a template when you are the executive editor. What I dislike is trying to force other people to accept a version they don't like. > Let's at least have these two things straightened up and quickly move on. > There is bigger challenge waiting for us other than this Web version. Taking > the advantage of the Web is a humongous task. And actually Zhouzi's previous > message of the XYS-web version intruding the formal XYS issue raises a good > point? Why shouldn't we take on the Web and do something more creative? What's > the danger after all? Please just drop this one for now, and we'll come back > to it later. Yes, I agree we can add more stuffs into web version if we have enough input. > > I have always thought Hawl is on the board. A while back in a message I sent > to the board I "announced" Hawl's back. As far as I can recall, there is none > follow up message, including Hawl himself, that denies that. So Hawl must be > kept within this discussion. Especially we are counting on his version of > the story to reach the resolution. What I can recall is that Howl asked to remove his name from the editors list after it was put back. By the way, I just recall that when I was on aan.net last night, I didn't meet any crashes. So what its sys admin said "our log files reported that while the system crashed, you were doing tasks relating chaning system configuration" is purely a lie, and that's why he didn't show the log file. I don't think we can cooperate with such kind of a sys admin. And I don't think we can cooperate with this kind of company that when an agreetment couldn't be reached, it secretly tried to block you from entering account, and after that failed, it found an excuse to close your account. IF they think it's their machine and they can do anything on you there, there is not possibilities to collaborate, because they think they are superior to us. And how can we collaborate with them now? beg them to re-open xys account for us ? There are some bugs and typos in this web version, and since aan.net has closed xys account, I have to fix it in other sites, therefore I have moved the web version to other sites to fix the bugs and linked to it. Of course, if the resolution is that we still want to collaborate with aan.net, we can move the web version back. Collaborate with aan.net or not, they owe me an apology for telling my sys admin that I have "possibly" hacked and crashed their machine. zhouzi From shif Fri Jan 17 04:31 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id EAA14215; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:31:38 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701170931.EAA14215@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Web page problem etc. To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shi-min Fang) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:31:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com, xys@uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: <199701170914.EAA11874@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 17, 97 04:14:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 353 Status: RO > In http;//www.msi.umn.edu/~hchen/sample/, there is not editor list. I was wrong with this. It does has an editor list: ~{1>FZ1`<-#:7=V[WS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~{Is8e#:!!!!I"RKIz!"P%3>!"VqHK~} So I think what Bambooman means "the names are just fine" is that his name is fine :-) (I made a mistake by saying Bambooman's name is bad :-)) zhouzi From jmarcr@unb.ca Fri Jan 17 16:52 EST 1997 Received: from unb.ca (hermes.csd.unb.ca [131.202.3.20]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA08388 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jmarcr@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca [131.202.3.10]) by unb.ca (8.7.6/961016-08:40) id RAA27065; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:52:29 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost by jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (8.8.4/960921-23:08) id RAA14324; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:52:21 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:52:20 -0400 (AST) From: A Ship at Sea X-Sender: jmarcr@jupiter Reply-To: A Ship at Sea To: Shi-min Fang cc: Chun Xia , hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu, hchen@msi.umn.edu, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, xli@asia2.aan.net Subject: ~{7|083FFf!#!#!# In-Reply-To: <199701162117.QAA04325@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 2589 Status: RO On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Shi-min Fang wrote: > > What's wrong with the board? > > This is not a board. In fact, here only Sanyee and I serve in XYS board. > This list was created by someone who believes XYS board should be excluded > from the discussion of XYS web version, and by someone who thinks those > XYS editors with "bad" pennames should be removed from the editors list. ~{03JGAu@P@PTT=x:s;(T0#-#-2;JG9JRb5D#,R22;V*JGTuwa8c5D>MJU5=AKUbP)CC6y!#KyRT~} ~{3C;z@4R;I$WS!#~} ~{#A!#2;Cw0W!#8wN;@O1`6<4sC{TZ0q#,TuwaSV3IAKMbN'#?#-#-;51JC{?IRT;;5DBo!#~} ~{#-#-I=R2;9JGDGWyI=#,HK2;;aRrAK1JC{>M2;JGDG8vHK!#~} ~{#B!#Ub@oKF:u6 > I believe that we are playing war game just like kids, how come somebody > > grabs dady's loaded riffle? > > Can we authorize some ownership? We do this in industry for complicated > > project and management. I will propose same idea here: > > Xiaohui has full responsibility of web pages. He should coordinate all > > the resources and makes his decision, unless we need a vote. > > Why? He is professional web master and has strong art background. > > All of us should function as consultants, proposing ideas, submitting > > draft design, critique other's artwork... but never finalize anything. > > If you think this makes sense, let's do a vote. > Anybody's contributions are always welcome. However, if anyone wants to > coordinate, authorize or manage any XYS bussiness, he should applies to > join XYS board first, and he should take the responsibility to associate > his name with XYS. ~{N*0l:C#X#Y#S#,1`<-2?S&JGR;8vME=a5D#>#,PB#<#<44Tl#>#>#,PB#<##>#?:N1XN*2;O`8I5DJB@K~} ~{7QJ1 > ChunXia > > P.S. I don't want spend any energy on politics at my spare time, I got enough > > at work! > > > Me either. I didn't realize there is politics going underground on this web > issue until two days ago. My point is very clear: if anyone enjoys to play > political games everywhere, I am sure he won't find the playyard in XYS. > Now the web version of this issue has been published, and I also asked > people to visit the other version. The users' responses are very clear if > you read xys-friends. > > zhouzi > > From hchen@msi.umn.edu Fri Jan 17 17:35 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA19258 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00757; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:35:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA05553; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:34:24 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701172234.QAA05553@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: ~{7|083FFf!#!#!# To: jmarcr@unb.ca Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:34:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, chun@hsmpk15a-121.Eng.Sun.COM, hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu, hchen@s1.msi.umn.edu, Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca, xli@asia2.aan.net In-Reply-To: from "A Ship at Sea" at Jan 17, 97 05:52:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1022 Status: RO 卓英， 是我将你的名字放进来的。原因是我认为对不起你。 You initiated the first draft, and any real one working on this draft knows how hard to INITIATE. One week before the deadline, you expressed willingness to push back the dead- line. Then I read a piece of email saying Howl or Louzhu may help out. I naively replied within minutes: yes, i will try it with Louzhu. I even specified the test site is my homepage. Unfortunately, I did not reply to you with that email, so that monday morning a piece of email from Sanyee claiming you worked out a new version. I immediately replied to him: it is common sense that without a versin control, such a network project is doomed to fail. Your iniative is indeed valuable, i mentioned between numerous phone calls. And your point that such a design cannot be downloaded from other sites without credit, striking the cord of my heart. It is ethics, that counts; whether we are web professional or not, bears not weight. For this, my apology to you and to Louzhu. --hc From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Fri Jan 17 20:15 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA14011 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA81854 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:13:33 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA157132 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:13:33 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA264894 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:13:32 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA029130010; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:13:31 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA130380033; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:13:53 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701180113.AA130380033@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Web page problem etc. To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:13:53 PST In-Reply-To: <199701170914.EAA11874@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>; from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 17, 97 4:14 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3297 Status: RO woops, one thing i meant to say in the last message but somehow slipped through my fingers is that my name shouldn't be on the web version of aan's, 'cause i didn't do nothing for this edition. that's the only thing i found not fine with it. sorry about that. if indeed the pennames becomes an issue, i would find it hard to believe that we can't talk through it. th've been accepted -- that's how i see it. for every names that appear on both versions are in fact penname (or real name in fact? :)). now let's move on. while we are still awaiting hawl's version of the story to reach the final decision, let me pinpoint out several problems in the Web page processing even without the detailed picture. What we see were two threads take off simultaneusly, what we would assume is that there will be a reasonably agreed-upon teamwork or colaboration. This principle in both operation and the follow-on judgement has to be hold on firmly, because there was NONE clear ownership defination before that. Now, upon the completion of both versions, both parties have to 1) submit to the board their version for further commentary and 2) when one is finalized, credit to where is due as an mendatory courtesy rule. Never mind the question whether there has to be such a rush of publishing the Web version. Neither of the above rules, which I assume and expect to be followed with common sense, are regulated. Zhouzi tricked the server at AAN to take on his page, whether AAN was not operational due to conspiracy or pure hardware problem you are free to speculate(so do I, but remember this is speculation _only_), and at the following day immediately announced it. This is justified if Zhouzi has claimed the ownership of this Web edition. However, as far as I can recall this wasn't what exactly happened before the operation. In addition, rule 2) is potentially violated because none other parties have been credited. Which is fine if there are indeed none borrowing materials. I wanted to point out these not merely for the purpose of solving this deadlock, but also as lessons we all shall learn for any future operations. As for the cooperation with AAN, I had always thought, and still believe in, that this will be benefitial for both parties as long as the operations stay healthy. As things gradually got out of control and hatred mails are exchanged so on so forth, whoever was involved should cool down first and think over the faulty parts of both parties before asking questions such as who owes who an apology. Keep in mind what we are doing right now is "damage control", there are in fact more to come, such as several pieces of news carried in this edition that anguished OT people, but I thought it is relatively a less priority issue for the time being. We shall come back to that as well as the web version later. Hwal was on leave during his work transition, and as I understand was put back to the board. There shouldn't be any more confusions on that. -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From shif Fri Jan 17 23:09 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id XAA05303; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701180402.XAA05303@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Web page problem etc. To: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com (Zheng Zhang) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:02:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701180113.AA130380033@simpler.hpl.hp.com> from "Zheng Zhang" at Jan 17, 97 05:13:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 6458 Status: RO > woops, one thing i meant to say in the last message but somehow slipped > through my fingers is that my name shouldn't be on the web version of > aan's, 'cause i didn't do nothing for this edition. that's the only thing > i found not fine with it. sorry about that. It's xys tradition to list all editors in every issue even though they do nothing with that issue. Why the web version is so speical for this ? Is it because it will be put in aan ? There are editors who did something for this edition but their names are not there, is this fine ? > if indeed the pennames becomes an issue, i would find it hard to believe > that we can't talk through it. th've been accepted -- that's how i see it. > for every names that appear on both versions are in fact penname (or real > name in fact? :)). Sure, we can talk through it. The problem is: aan didn't want to talk through it. They made the list first, then we have to beg them to change it back ? > > now let's move on. while we are still awaiting hawl's version of the story > to reach the final decision, let me pinpoint out several problems in the > Web page processing even without the detailed picture. What we see were > two threads take off simultaneusly, what we would assume is that there > will be a reasonably agreed-upon teamwork or colaboration. This principle No, they didn't take off simultaneusly. Zhuo ying did a version first, and we were not satisfied, so hchen asked to take it over with lou zhu. I as the EE was not satisified with this new version either, so I took it over, and they refused to give up. Why zhuo ying had to give up but they didn't have to ? They think they are special ? > in both operation and the follow-on judgement has to be hold on firmly, > because there was NONE clear ownership defination before that. Now, upon To me, the ownership is always very clear. It belongs to xys. It doesn't belong to any person or any company. > the completion of both versions, both parties have to 1) submit to the board > their version for further commentary and 2) when one is finalized, credit > to where is due as an mendatory courtesy rule. We don't have this requirement. We give the executive editor superpower. It's xys tradition that the EE has the final words on the publication of xys, and this can be applied to the publication of web version by default. It's true that aan ask us to have so call "version control", but we don't take command from aan. If you don't think so, and think the publication of web version should have a special procedure, we can discuss this for the future publication, but no this published one. You cannot apply the future law to the past. > > Never mind the question whether there has to be such a rush of publishing > the Web version. Neither of the above rules, which I assume and expect to We schedualed the web version published at the same time of publication of text version, and I did. Why you think it's a rush then ? Sure, there was disagreement about its publication, but it's from outside, not from the inside of xys board. I didn't see any objection about my web version inside xys board before it's published. And even if there were objections, the EE still has the final words. > be followed with common sense, are regulated. Zhouzi tricked the server at > AAN to take on his page, whether AAN was not operational due to conspiracy or > pure hardware problem you are free to speculate(so do I, but remember this > is speculation _only_), and at the following day immediately announced it. If it's hardware problem, I should be praised by overcoming it to publish xys ON TIME. If it's a conspiracy, I should also be praised by against it to publish xys ON TIME. So what's wrong for my "tricking" it ? Only the sys admin of aan knows exactly it's hardware problem or conspiracy. I immediately reported this problem to aan. But three days has passed, aan says nothing about this problem except accusing me to my sys admin of hacking and crashing their machine. > This is justified if Zhouzi has claimed the ownership of this Web edition. Again, the ownership of web version belongs to xys, not belong to any person. > However, as far as I can recall this wasn't what exactly happened before > the operation. In addition, rule 2) is potentially violated because none > other parties have been credited. Which is fine if there are indeed none > borrowing materials. When I borrowed materials from lou zhu, I tried to credit him, but he refused and asked me to remove anything from him. So I did, and there are not borrowing materials anymore, so I don't need to credit anybody else for the design. > > I wanted to point out these not merely for the purpose of solving this > deadlock, but also as lessons we all shall learn for any future operations. > As for the cooperation with AAN, I had always thought, and still believe > in, that this will be benefitial for both parties as long as the operations What benefits xys can get ? > stay healthy. As things gradually got out of control and hatred mails are > exchanged so on so forth, whoever was involved should cool down first and > think over the faulty parts of both parties before asking questions such > as who owes who an apology. Keep in mind what we are doing right now is Anybody with objective mind can see which side is playing dirty. > "damage control", there are in fact more to come, such as several pieces xys is not damaged from this, so I don't think we need damage control. Maybe aan needs it. > of news carried in this edition that anguished OT people, but I thought I don't know why OT people will be anguished. That piece of news about OT was from the cover of the first issue OT of this year. Look at it carefully. And, if we want to report news, we should prepare to anguish people anyway. > it is relatively a less priority issue for the time being. We shall come > back to that as well as the web version later. > > Hwal was on leave during his work transition, and as I understand was put > back to the board. There shouldn't be any more confusions on that. Howl was put back to the mailing list (we keep ex-editors in the mailing list), not to the board. Check recent issues of xys, the board list doesn't contain Howl. We did try to put his name to the editor list once, but he asked to remove it. Be cool, right. But being objective and consider the benefit of xys first are more important. zhouzi From Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.net Sat Jan 18 04:02 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id EAA03129 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA47994 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:02:09 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA106156 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:02:08 GMT Received: from rsoft.mindlink.net (mindlink.net [204.174.16.1]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA194982 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:02:07 -0600 Received: from bbs by rsoft.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0vlWf2-0000DJ-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:02:00 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 00:58:45 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu To: xys@uiuc.edu Subject: About Treaty With AAN From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Message-Id: Content-Type: text Content-Length: 314 Status: RO The Board: Calm down, please. The web version is still on AAN, and I didn't see there is a 'control' problem -- we choose what articles we want to publish, right? The oral treaty is a guide line, some- time detailed precedure may be needed. Things could be ironed later. Let's wait for a while. -- Sanyee From shif Sat Jan 18 06:34 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id GAA10973; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:34:01 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701181134.GAA10973@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: About Treaty With AAN To: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:34:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: from "Sanyee Tang" at Jan 18, 97 00:58:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1139 Status: RO > > Calm down, please. The web version is still on AAN, and I didn't The web version is still there, but the xys account is closed. It's all in their hands. We have lost the control of that one. When an account was closed with a lie, everybody knows the deal is over. > see there is a 'control' problem -- we choose what articles we > want to publish, right? The oral treaty is a guide line, some- And they choose how to publish it ? Today they can choose how to publish it, tomorrow they will choose what to publish. And if we don't agree with them, they can again close our account secrectly or with an excuse. The independence of xys is not just about what, it's also about how. It's also about that we have right not to deny access to our data without proper reason. And for those who think we still should collaborate with ann, please explain why we still need to collaborate with this hostile and arrogant company. An oral treaty can serve as a test for real treaty, and they have failed this test. I have explained why we shouldn't and don't need to, and I would like to hear about why we should and need to. zhouzi From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Sat Jan 18 14:10 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA24432 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA49610 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:10:36 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA264810 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:10:36 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA212324 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:10:34 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA155284633; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:10:34 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA140464660; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:11:00 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701181911.AA140464660@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: About Treaty With AAN To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:11:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701181134.GAA10973@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 18, 97 06:34:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 4386 Status: RO Okay then, let us at least try to put things in line here... 1) Why would I think an AAN-XYS deal can be beneficial? Several reasons that I see, a) a commercial site that targets the chinese community market has higher hit rate than whatever "edu" site we can find, thus leads to broader readerships for XYS as well and b) the contents of our magzines are not compromised and we will have full control and c) they have professional web master/designer that can help manage the web page much better than any of the current board member does. Notice that for b) I am refering to the contents only, and do not jump right on the argument on c) yet, as I shall explain shortly. Isn't that clear enough? The benefit that this relationship can bring to AAN is needless to say -- higher hit rate for them, fine. 2) problem with AAN? Now this cooperation seems in an icy edge. Zhouzi's previous msg regarding the "everything-the-best-for-xys" principle is right on, and I shall apply this principle to the following discussion. On the other hand, there is also something called as the "EE's-superpower" theorem. Fine as it sound. The caution here is that if there are conflicts between the two, which way do you choose? Do not mindlessly argue both can be blended perfectly -- I shall simply take this WEb page operation as an example. Independent of whoever describes whatever version of the story, and whatever the version of the Web we are looking at, the fact is there co-exist several designs before the publication, agree? Can I assume that zhouzi and hawl-louzu denies and reject each other's version is pure artistic disagreement with no ego-get-in-the-way? If we are gonna to take the "best-for-xys" approach, you would ask people to take a look at both before claiming it's published, won't that make sense? Even without doing so, can't you count the heads? Both Louzu and Chun have professional art background and whose works you may check out in the Web, they favored AAN's design wasn't it? Hwal sided with the AAN design too right? If I would be prompted with multple-choises I would side the same, because you guys know that I favored AAN's design in a prevous message even when neither of the designs are finetuned yet and there has been no such struggle. The head/logo design of zhouzi's page I can't disagree more. :( Don't bother now, bring up the "best-for-xys-seen-from-inside" versus the "best-for-xys-seen-from-outside" for help, isn't this a bit tiring? Why don't zhouzi then explain to us that the final-words/superpower of the EE, which happens to be Zhouzi himself this time, just so happens that matches perfectly with the "best-for-xys" choice. Some of the facts I know I have listed above, and I have to disagree. Why are you always so sure? On the other hand, I really wish I may have such a high confidence. :( What I am not happy with is that a biparitison-relasionship has been driven to the edge of a full blown-up because of mis-operation, and yet without any retrospect of one's own still accusing accusing accusing accusing? Ha! How fun it is! 3) More.. The OT news. Why can't you wait until I bring up some of the facts/material that OT people argued with me which I have no time yet to reply? If you are in such an urge to reply to them, at least you may change that "we think it's correct" to "I think it's correct" as common sense? Now congrats for draging XYS into a possible meaningless war with OT! And... that's "best-for-XYS"?? Fine, just remember when you do engage into the war, make sure use "me: this edition's XYS EE" instead of "XYS board", because I disagree. Sorry folks, I am just running a bit out of patience. :( All these rabbings, are in no way, and at any time, to undermine the the hard work Zhouzi has done, and I sincerely wish this will continue. This issue, is by large a very good one and I do know how much hardwork it sucks. But I want to seperate the contents away from the format and further away from the operation, because only through discussion in that realm can XYS stay healthy. -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From shif Sat Jan 18 19:03 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id SAA17496; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:55:42 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701182355.SAA17496@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: About Treaty With AAN To: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com (Zheng Zhang) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:55:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701181911.AA140464660@simpler.hpl.hp.com> from "Zheng Zhang" at Jan 18, 97 11:11:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 5495 Status: RO > 1) Why would I think an AAN-XYS deal can be beneficial? > > Several reasons that I see, a) a commercial site that targets the chinese > community market has higher hit rate than whatever "edu" site we can find, > thus leads to broader readerships for XYS as well and b) the contents of our > magzines are not compromised and we will have full control and c) they have > professional web master/designer that can help manage the web page much > better than any of the current board member does. a) cooperation with a commercial site is very dangerous, as this incident has shown. Commerical companies have to put their benefits above anything, and when they think their benefits are threatening, they will do anything to protect themselves. This is understandable, but we don't need to be controlled by them. Associating with a commercial company might also destroy xys's reputation. b) I have explained this in the mail repling to sanyee's c) I did think they have professional web masters before and was quite happy that they want to help us. However, after having looked at the version they provided, I doubt this. Lou Zhu doesn't have any degrees or background on computer science and computer graph designer. If you look at the resourse of his version, you will find he knows little html language. He even didn't know how to format the text. And he didn't show any art designs at all. Anyone with a Chinese font tool can do better job than his. > Now this cooperation seems in an icy edge. Zhouzi's previous msg regarding the > "everything-the-best-for-xys" principle is right on, and I shall apply this > principle to the following discussion. On the other hand, there is also > something called as the "EE's-superpower" theorem. Fine as it sound. The > caution here is that if there are conflicts between the two, which way do > you choose? Do not mindlessly argue both can be blended perfectly -- I shall > simply take this WEb page operation as an example. we had discussed about the possible conflict between benefit of xys and superpower of EE before. frist, we trust our EE's judgement. Second, if an EE's judgement is really bad (and this is always debatable), he can only affect one issue because the EE is rotated. > > If we are gonna to take the "best-for-xys" approach, you would ask people to > take a look at both before claiming it's published, won't that make sense? If you can recall, I did tell the board to have a look at my version and compare with the other one immediately after I drafted it. > Even without doing so, can't you count the heads? Both Louzu and Chun have > professional art background and whose works you may check out in the Web, > they favored AAN's design wasn't it? Hwal sided with the AAN design too right? Louzhu said nothing about my version until several hours before xys publication. Chun said he favored AAN's design compared with Zhuo Ying's. He didn't compare AAN's and mine. His only opinion is that the background in my version has problem, so I removed it. Again, as I said, although I repeatly asked the board to check out my version, I didn't see any objection about my version (Sanyee said "AAN's version is good enough, zhouzi's is fine"). And I didn't see any objection from the outside either, so how can I count the head ? I sent my message to the board, and howl sent most of his message to the people he chose, not the board. How can we count the head ? > If I would be prompted with multple-choises I would side the same, because you > guys know that I favored AAN's design in a prevous message even when neither of > the designs are finetuned yet and there has been no such struggle. The head/logo > design of zhouzi's page I can't disagree more. :( You gave your opinions on 1/16, after it has been published. > What I am not happy with is that a biparitison-relasionship has been driven > to the edge of a full blown-up because of mis-operation, and yet without any > retrospect of one's own still accusing accusing accusing accusing? Ha! How > fun it is! Although there were disagreements on the publication of web version, I still thought we can work with aan. I still tried to update the archive in aan site. But they closed xys account and reported to my sys admin. After this, I really don't think we can work with them anymore. They, not me, blew it. > The OT news. Why can't you wait until I bring up some of the facts/material > that OT people argued with me which I have no time yet to reply? If you are in > such an urge to reply to them, at least you may change that "we think it's > correct" to "I think it's correct" as common sense? > > Now congrats for draging XYS into a possible meaningless war with OT! And... > that's "best-for-XYS"?? Fine, just remember when you do engage into the war, > make sure use "me: this edition's XYS EE" instead of "XYS board", because I > disagree. Sanyee has asked me about this before so I think I should give a reply to explain it. I signed my letter with my name, instead of "XYS board". I am used to use "we" instead of "I" in the letter because I don't want people think I have a big ego :-). "We" represents "me and those agree with me". I posted this net news to the board before it's published, and none had opinion about it, so I think at least there are some editors agree with this news. And it's just an explaination to clarify possible misunderstanding, and I didn't use any bad words in the letter, why you think it's a war ? zhouzi From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Sun Jan 19 03:35 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id DAA06188 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA52144 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:34:02 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA36228 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:34:01 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA240984 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:34:00 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA254362835; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:33:55 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA146462864; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:34:24 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701190834.AA146462864@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Treaty with AAN To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:34:24 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 6048 Status: RO > > a) cooperation with a commercial site is very dangerous, as this incident > has shown. Commerical companies have to put their benefits above anything, That's true. But it does not mean an healthy bipartisanship can't be formed. This incident has shown me nothing other than how any misconduct can lead to the real danger. > and when they think their benefits are threatening, they will do anything > to protect themselves. This is understandable, but we don't need to be Benefits? If they think the page they have to accept is not artistically favored, why do they have to take it? > controlled by them. Associating with a commercial company might also > destroy xys's reputation. > b) I have explained this in the mail repling to sanyee's Which is not true, i.e., the contents have to be tailored to their demand. Of course, alarming ones can always cry-wolf at will. :( > c) I did think they have professional web masters before and was quite > happy that they want to help us. However, after having looked at the > version they provided, I doubt this. Lou Zhu doesn't have any degrees or > background on computer science and computer graph designer. If you look > at the resourse of his version, you will find he knows little html language. > He even didn't know how to format the text. And he didn't show any art > designs at all. Anyone with a Chinese font tool can do better job than > his. I am not willing to speculate on whoever's degree whatsoever. All I can see is that his co-design with hawl (some input from ZhouYing also?) is more professional. Sorry to say that. :( > > we had discussed about the possible conflict between benefit of xys and > superpower of EE before. frist, we trust our EE's judgement. Second, if > an EE's judgement is really bad (and this is always debatable), he can > only affect one issue because the EE is rotated. Then this is fine under EE's-superpower assumption. Don't, however, brush everything under such big slogan as "best-for-xys" then. That was simply my point. Indeed the "best-for-xys" should take the highest priority, the very action that resorts to the use of this priciple means that the EE's own opinion is set for debate, which ought to lead to a fairer trial. Take other things as "best-from-my-view" is perfectly fine. This is only nature. > > If you can recall, I did tell the board to have a look at my version and > compare with the other one immediately after I drafted it. My site at csrd.uiuc was down over that big weekend, and I got your exchange mails with Chun, Hawl etc. only yesterday. Even without taking that into account, I don't see why you can't take their version if under the name of "best-for-xys" > Louzhu said nothing about my version until several hours before xys > publication. Now the timing comes into play somehow. :( > Chun said he favored AAN's design compared with Zhuo Ying's. He didn't > compare AAN's and mine. His only opinion is that the background in my > version has problem, so I removed it. Do you want to hear a more direct answer? Chun is too nice a guy to say something bad directly to someone's face. > Again, as I said, although I repeatly asked the board to check out my > version, I didn't see any objection about my version (Sanyee said "AAN's > version is good enough, zhouzi's is fine"). And I didn't see any objection > from the outside either, so how can I count the head ? Interesting. How about sent each of them a checklist? :( > I sent my message to the board, and howl sent most of his message to the > people he chose, not the board. How can we count the head ? "he choose"? may be that was a list for people involved in the design? maybe you were on the list also? maybe you were the EE who should count the heads? :( > > Although there were disagreements on the publication of web version, I still > thought we can work with aan. I still tried to update the archive in aan > site. But they closed xys account and reported to my sys admin. After this, > I really don't think we can work with them anymore. They, not me, blew it. That is a really convenient an argument. :( What if they reject your version because of artistic disapproval? If publish XYS on time is the hightest interest, why a compromise can't be reached using, say, their more professional design? What if their system was indeed in trouble at the night of 14th and they close your account because you have forced/tricked the server? Would you like some one to mess up with your machine after all? I am not speaking these as if I am sided with AAN. On the contrary, I value the XYS-AAN relationship as part of XYS treasure more and that's why. And I hope all these questions are based on nature facts. There just can't exists any faults, even if un-intentionaly, from you except things like "errrr....., I mistrust these fellows! and here is the wrongly assembled pieces so let's get rid of 'em"? :( OT related words deleted, XYS comes first. :) We can continue for a thousand years rambling at such finer details, but I'd rather stop right here. I will stick to one single principle which I wont' give up as long as I am in XYS: every relationship to the outside world, including contributors/other mags/XYS-carriers, are the only treasuries we have beside our own limited brain and time. Do not break them if you are realy so much into the "best-for-xys" slogan, and if you do, take it as a man. Just a Web page design weights much more than others? don't be ridiculous. Again, sorry for my harsh wordings. I'd like to see XYS's operation stay healthy, that's all. Zhouzi you have contributed a whole lot of time and valuable work for XYS, won't you think we are better off without all these hassles? -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From shif Sun Jan 19 05:27 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id FAA14164; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701191015.FAA14164@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Treaty with AAN To: zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com (Zheng Zhang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:15:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701190834.AA146462864@simpler.hpl.hp.com> from "Zheng Zhang" at Jan 19, 97 00:34:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 5972 Status: RO > > Benefits? If they think the page they have to accept is not artistically > favored, why do they have to take it? So you think the art quality of the web version should be judged and decided by aan ? If there are several versions, it's aan that decide which one to take ? Where is the independence of xys then ? Why we cannot judge it by ourselves? Why we need outside authority? If they think because the web version is put in their machine, they have right to judge and decide, fine, but we will just move to other machines to play with ourselves. > I am not willing to speculate on whoever's degree whatsoever. All I can see > is that his co-design with hawl (some input from ZhouYing also?) is more > professional. Sorry to say that. :( I don't see any "professional" in their design, and this is not just my personal feeling. Don't just ask the opinions of aan's friends. Ask more people. I haven't heard any good words about aan's design so far, except from lou zhu's friends. Sorry to say this too. > Then this is fine under EE's-superpower assumption. Don't, however, brush > everything under such big slogan as "best-for-xys" then. That was simply > my point. Indeed the "best-for-xys" should take the highest priority, the > very action that resorts to the use of this priciple means that the EE's > own opinion is set for debate, which ought to lead to a fairer trial. Take > other things as "best-from-my-view" is perfectly fine. This is only nature. You misunderstand what I mean "best-for-xys". What I means is, when deal with the outside world, always put xys' benefit at the first place. ~{2;R*3T@o0GMb~}Anything wrong with this one ? > My site at csrd.uiuc was down over that big weekend, and I got your exchange > mails with Chun, Hawl etc. only yesterday. Even without taking that into > account, I don't see why you can't take their version if under the name > of "best-for-xys" The reason is very simple. I think their version is bad, even worse than Zhuo Ying's, and I expressed my opinion here before I took it over. So under the name of "best-for-xys", I rejected it. Isn't this enough ? You assume their version is better, so I should take it for the "best-for- xys", but I don't agree with your assumption. > > > Louzhu said nothing about my version until several hours before xys > > publication. > > Now the timing comes into play somehow. :( Yes, it's they that were playing the timing. Why they couldn't tell me their objection more earlier? Isn't that dirty ? > Do you want to hear a more direct answer? Chun is too nice a guy to say > something bad directly to someone's face. If he didn't want to frankly express his opinion, how can I know his opinion? > > Again, as I said, although I repeatly asked the board to check out my > > version, I didn't see any objection about my version (Sanyee said "AAN's > > version is good enough, zhouzi's is fine"). And I didn't see any objection > > from the outside either, so how can I count the head ? > > Interesting. How about sent each of them a checklist? :( > Why should I ? Why they don't need to ? Don't you think you are applying double standards here ? > > I sent my message to the board, and howl sent most of his message to the > > people he chose, not the board. How can we count the head ? > > "he choose"? may be that was a list for people involved in the design? maybe > you were on the list also? maybe you were the EE who should count the heads? :( So you think the web version should be only decided by those involved in the design? Not the board ? > That is a really convenient an argument. :( What if they reject your version > because of artistic disapproval? If publish XYS on time is the hightest Then what if I reject their version because of artistic disapproval? Again, you are applying double standards. They can reject mine, why I cannot reject theirs ? > interest, why a compromise can't be reached using, say, their more professional > design? What if their system was indeed in trouble at the night of 14th and Right, why a compromise can't be reached using, say, my more professional design ? > they close your account because you have forced/tricked the server? Would you > like some one to mess up with your machine after all? I am not speaking these > as if I am sided with AAN. On the contrary, I value the XYS-AAN relationship Sorry, I think you are. If you are objective, you will ask for the evidence before asking this kind of questions. You assume I am probably guilty without any evidence. I have asked the sys admin of aan.net to show me and my sys admin the log files they claimed they had. Three days has passed, no reply. > We can continue for a thousand years rambling at such finer details, but > I'd rather stop right here. I will stick to one single principle which I > wont' give up as long as I am in XYS: every relationship to the outside > world, including contributors/other mags/XYS-carriers, are the only > treasuries we have beside our own limited brain and time. Do not break > them if you are realy so much into the "best-for-xys" slogan, and if you do, > take it as a man. Just a Web page design weights much more than others? > don't be ridiculous. I have my own principle too: if anyone outside wants to have relationsip with xys, he must respect the independence of xys, and never tries to interfere the operation of xys, and never tries to play politics and play dirty. We welcome, treasure and respect any contributions to xys, but we don't obey and beg anybody and downgrade ourselves ! > Again, sorry for my harsh wordings. I'd like to see XYS's operation stay > healthy, that's all. Zhouzi you have contributed a whole lot of time and > valuable work for XYS, won't you think we are better off without all these > hassles? > I want to see xys's operation stay healthy too, but I guess we have different definition of "health". For me, it means independence and self-respect. zhouzi From zzhang@simpler.hpl.hp.com Sun Jan 19 14:33 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA23599 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:33:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA54386 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:33:13 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA198940 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:33:13 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA273174 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:33:12 -0600 Received: from simpler.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA013312391; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:33:11 -0800 Received: by simpler.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA149322392; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:33:12 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Zheng Zhang (BambooMan) Message-Id: <199701191933.AA149322392@simpler.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re; To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:33:12 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 772 Status: RO I said I won't rumbling along the details of the incidence to bore you guys, :), and I won't. Just a quick followup on the "health" defination: 1) Independence of XYS. Agree, as long as the contents are not tailored to any one's dictation, we are all set. We shall face up for anything otherwise and fight our battle. This does not apply this time, obviously. 2) The self-respect. Agree also, make sure do not replace it with your-self -respect. :( -- Zheng Zhang, ( BambooMan ) Hewlett-Packard Labs. tel: (415) 857-7195 1501 Page Mill Rd., M/S 3U-7 fax: (415) 857-7029 Palo Alto e-mail: zzhang@hpl.hp.com CA. 94304, USA http://www.csrd.uiuc.edu/~zzhang From Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.net Sun Jan 19 14:52 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA28751 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:52:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA52640 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:52:23 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA264122 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:52:22 GMT Received: from rsoft.mindlink.net (mindlink.net [204.174.16.1]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA275104 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:52:18 -0600 Received: from bbs by rsoft.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0vm3Hs-00059M-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:52:16 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 11:49:48 -0800 X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu To: xys@uiuc.edu Subject: Keep AAN Link :-) From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Message-Id: Content-Type: text Content-Length: 256 Status: RO ~{8wN;1`PV#:~} ~{!!!!4s;o6Mv#?~} ~{!!!!NR:M:?L8AK#,K{K5TZM68eWi8e5HJBIOK{JMCwH7R;OB#::?~} ~{#(>ISj#);9JG#X#Y#S5D1`<-!#~} ~{!*!*I"RKIz~} From hchen@msi.umn.edu Sun Jan 19 17:46 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA20540 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA53680 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:46:05 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA273396 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:46:04 GMT Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA288744 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:46:02 -0600 Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06592; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:46:01 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA18291; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:45:54 -0600 (CST) X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701192245.QAA18291@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Keep AAN Link :-) To: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:45:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: from "Sanyee Tang" at Jan 19, 97 11:49:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1210 Status: RO > > >~{8wN;1`PV#:~} > >~{!!!!4s;o6~{>Mv#?~} > >~{!!!!NR:M:?L8AK#,K{K5TZM68eWi8e5HJBIOK{JMCwH7R;OB#::?~} >~{#(>ISj#);9JG#X#Y#S5D1`<-!#~} > > >~{!*!*I"RKIz~} > > Sanyee and xys-board, i'm sort of reluctent to use this XYS account as i feel it is abused as a battle field. on the other hand, as i always do, i send contributions to this account. there is no point to argue about my status in the board. if there is some duty i am delinquent, i should be blamed. now it is purely amusing that my name was on the board maillist, is on the board, but zhouzi came out saying no. last november when sanyee asked my name, i said i prefer a general name like "Old Rain" for both my contributions and board list, but it has nothing to do my emaillist and the fact i am acting in XYS. When BBM updated his board namelist, he got my personal consent. why here comes out such a rediculous fuss? zhouzi, save your time on other points instead of my status. also, if you think AAN mistreated you, fine, you yourself go there to cry, what does that have anything to do with me or other guys in the list? --hc From shif Sun Jan 19 18:14 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id SAA29035; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:14:03 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701192314.SAA29035@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Keep AAN Link :-) To: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:14:03 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: from "Sanyee Tang" at Jan 19, 97 11:49:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 844 Status: RO > > ~{!!!!4s;o6 ~{>Mv#?~} ~{DcTuC42;K5V;SPVqHKR;HKG?ARR*GsSk#a#a#nPx=;DX#?~}:-) ~{PBSoK?UJ:E1;9X#,=;JGTg>M6OAK#,OVTZ5DNJLbJGR*2;R*;V84#?~} > > ~{!!!!NR:M:?L8AK#,K{K5TZM68eWi8e5HJBIOK{JMCwH7R;OB#::?~} > ~{#(>ISj#);9JG#X#Y#S5D1`<-!#~} > ~{TZ:?;X5=Ub8v~}list~{5DJ1:r#,NRTxNJK{R*2;R*;X5=1`<-2?#,K{CwH7OrNR~} ~{1mJ>2;R*#,V;T8RbWvN*1`MbHKT1N*PBSoK?WwJB!#KyRTTZ:s@4C?R;FZ5DIs8e~} ~{C{5%VP6MJGPBSoK?5D1`<-#,UbJG1XPkCwH75D!#~} ~{AmMb#,:?K5#a#a#nHg:N6T4}NR#,JGNR8vHK5DJB!#UbJG2;6T5D#,NRWvN*PBSoK?~} ~{5D6TMbA*O5HK:M1>TB5DTpHN1`<-#,Hg4K1;HK6T4}#,TuC4?IRTK5JGNR8vHK5DJB#?~} ~{RT:s5DTp1`R*JGSVSk#a#a#n2;:M#,R21;K{CGHg4K6T4}#,R2JG8vHK5DJB#?~} ~{7=V[WS~} From hchen@msi.umn.edu Sun Jan 19 18:36 EST 1997 Received: from s1.msi.umn.edu (s1.msi.umn.edu [128.101.24.1]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA05590 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:36:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from s13.msi.umn.edu (s13.msi.umn.edu [128.101.27.13]) by s1.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06700; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:36:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hchen@localhost) by s13.msi.umn.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA18366; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:36:10 -0600 (CST) From: Hao Chen Message-Id: <199701192336.RAA18366@s13.msi.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Keep AAN Link :-) To: shif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shi-min Fang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:36:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: <199701192314.SAA29035@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> from "Shi-min Fang" at Jan 19, 97 06:14:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1014 Status: RO > >~{TZ:?;X5=Ub8v~}list~{5DJ1:r#,NRTxNJK{R*2;R*;X5=1`<-2?#,K{CwH7OrNR~} >~{1mJ>2;R*#,V;T8RbWvN*1`MbHKT1N*PBSoK?WwJB!#KyRTTZ:s@4C?R;FZ5DIs8e~} >~{C{5%VP6~{T1!#N*PBSoK?WvJB2;R;6(>MJGPBSoK?5D1`<-#,UbJG1XPkCwH75D!#~} >~{AmMb#,:?K5#a#a#nHg:N6T4}NR#,JGNR8vHK5DJB!#UbJG2;6T5D#,NRWvN*PBSoK?~} >~{5D6TMbA*O5HK:M1>TB5DTpHN1`<-#,Hg4K1;HK6T4}#,TuC4?IRTK5JGNR8vHK5DJB#?~} >~{RT:s5DTp1`R*JGSVSk#a#a#n2;:M#,R21;K{CGHg4K6T4}#,R2JG8vHK5DJB#?~} > >~{7=V[WS~} > xys board, i hope this is last piece from me to xys, irrelavent with contributions. 1. i asked zhouzi to remove my name from xys-friends list before, he did not; in last march, i formally request again, he did. it has nothing to do with XYS board, it is just because i do not want my name on a list without my permission. 2. i never ask irrelavent party to put or remove my name from or to any maillist. the name on xys@uiuc.edu, was requested by me, and again updated with my consent. --hc From shif Sun Jan 19 19:00 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id TAA12796; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:09 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701200000.TAA12796@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: Re: Keep AAN Link :-) To: hchen@msi.umn.edu (Hao Chen) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: xys@uiuc.edu, shif (Shi-min Fang) In-Reply-To: <199701192336.RAA18366@s13.msi.umn.edu> from "Hao Chen" at Jan 19, 97 05:36:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1166 Status: RO > > i hope this is last piece from me to xys, irrelavent with contributions. > > 1. i asked zhouzi to remove my name from xys-friends list before, > he did not; in last march, i formally request again, he did. it > has nothing to do with XYS board, it is just because i do not > want my name on a list without my permission. Why suddently mentioned xys-friends? Do you try to imply that you just left xys-friends but never quit XYS board ? I believe most of editors still remember I and Langren sent you a goodbye mail when you announced you quit xys board. > > 2. i never ask irrelavent party to put or remove my name from or to > any maillist. the name on xys@uiuc.edu, was requested by me, and > again updated with my consent. Right, you were put back to xys@uiuc.edu, just as we keep other ex-editors in xys@uiuc.edu. But you were never back to xys board (xys board is not equal to xys@uiuc.edu) and refused to be put back to xys board. If now you want to back to xys board, we can still consider this, but don't try to mess the list and the board, and confuse people that you never quit xys board or has been back to the board. zhouzi From YANG@D0GS01.FNAL.GOV Sun Jan 19 21:53 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA09344 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA57424 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:52:57 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA16198 for xys@students.uiuc.edu; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:52:55 GMT Received: from D0GS01.FNAL.GOV (d0gs01.fnal.gov [131.225.111.43]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA16188 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:52:54 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:52:54 -0600 (CST) X-PH: V4.4a@postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu From: YANG@D0NYU2.FNAL.GOV To: xys@uiuc.edu Message-Id: <970119205254.4d4004ba@D0NYU2.FNAL.GOV> Subject: my comments Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3997 Status: RO To every one on the board: It may be inevitable that we will have such an internal dispute to such an extent. It is just a little ironic that it happens at the time XYS has completed 3 years of publication and begins to move forward to a new direction. I think we ought not to get too emotional in order to identify the important issues and find solutions. 1. Hao quit from the board when he was busy in a transition period of his life. CC joined the board. When Hao regained internet access, CC claimed his arrangement with hao was over and quit from the board. Although we wanted to keep CC too, implicitly at least in my understanding we had accepted hao as a member again. He may not have resumed a full duty as an editor. In any event, this is not an issue here. 2. To coopperate with a commercial company, we gain stability of a web site, get help with their resources and attract new readerships because AAN especially targets on chinese communities. Because it is a cooperation, we have to compromise on something and trust other party with their abilities. In my understanding, we let AAN design a web page and we still have total control over what contents should be carried. We may not be satisfied with their design, and they may not be satisfied with our contents or style, but all these should be communicated rationally and with mutual respect. If normal reasoning fails, we can break up. In this case we do need a written agreement (or somethin like it) to protect XYS' rights( also prevent XYS' be taken over in such a case). But to me more importantly it is how we do it, unless we want to isolate ourselves without any cooperation and intimidate as many people as possible. In the case of the web version, the one whose server carrys it always has a final word no matter whether it is a company or a free site. Even if we find a volunteer who can do all the design work and web pages, can we keep him/her long if he/she doesn't have a final word on the part he/she is responsible for? We all have different aesthetic ideas or standards. Even reknown artists can't agree with each other. So which version is better is not an issue to me here. But how we deal with the situation is. We have one month time for next issue, why could we give this AAN- XYS cooperation a try on a differnt EE's hand? If the web version is not to most editors' taste and satisfaction, and our reasonable oppinions can't get through, then I won't oppose a break up. 3. This web version was originated from ZhuoYing, right? And she is not in the board. So I think her credit should be acknowdged in the web version somewhere. Forgive me if I overlooked in both web versions. 4. OT issue. Some times we don't have sensibility of other readers. But we do know choice of words can be neutral. I think we ought to express ourselves in order to attain healthy relationships among all editors. Zhouzi may feel a lot sayings has been targeted at him. But as a friend, I have to say this honestly. You are just like everyone of us. Flawed. You have excelent talents, you are ensusiastic and hard working, one of driving forces behind XYS's three years success. But sometime your virtue may turn into your weakness. If you are just an independent writer, poet, I don't really care what you do, how many people you have turned into your enemies. But I do feel your ego somehow sometime gets in the way too much as an editor. I am not here to judge anyone, but when we want to work together as a team and continue work as a team, I have to speak out what I feel. This incident itself is not a big deal in my oppinion. We can always break up with an outside company. Rather the inner mutual understanding and unity of the board is what I want to achieve. Correct me if I say anything wrong. If this understanding is not achieved, it is just a matter of time that XYS group will be broken up. I'd rather not see that. I hope we can all put this behind us very soon. langren From shif Sun Jan 19 22:18 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id WAA18211; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:18:08 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701200318.WAA18211@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: ~{?l56U6BRBi~} To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:18:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: shif (Shi-min Fang) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 779 Status: RO ~{R;!"#a#a#nHvAK8v;Q9X5tPBSoK?5DUJ:E#,NRR2A"<40Q6`C=Le0fW*RF5=~} ~{1p5D;zFw#,Rr4K#a#a#n:MPBSoK?J5v#,Hg9{N41m>v;r1m>vN4M(~} ~{9}#,TrN,3VD?G06O=;5DW4L,!#~} ~{6~!":?SZH%DjKDTB7]P{2<@k?*PBSoK?#,RT:sR2R;TY1mJ>2;T8;X5=1`<-~} ~{2?9$Ww#,WTH%DjKDTBFp1`<-2?C{5%VP<4RQ0Q:?3}C{!#Hg9{K{OVTZ8D1d~} ~{W"Rb#,R*Gs;X5=1`<-2?#,Tr1XPkLa3vIjGkR*Gs1m>v#,Hg9{N41m>v;r1m~} ~{>vN4M(9}#,:?HT2;JtPBSoK?1`<-2?5D3IT1#,2"GRRT:s2;5CRTHN:N7=J=~} ~{6TMb4z1mPBSoK?!#~} ~{H}!"8y>]PBSoK?5D9f6(:M4+M3#,Tp1`JG51TB5D6@2CU_#,6TPBSoK?5D3v~} ~{0f!"1`EESPWn:s5D>v6(H(!#Hg9{SPK-6T4KSPRlRi#,1XPkLa3v1m>v#,Hg}~ ~{9{N41m>v;r1m>vN4M(9}#,TrHTN,3VOVW4#,Tp1`HTJG51TB5D6@2CU_!#~} ~{7=V[WS~} From shif Sun Jan 19 23:27 EST 1997 Received: (from shif@localhost) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) id XAA13633; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:26:58 -0500 (EST) From: Shi-min Fang Message-Id: <199701200426.XAA13633@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: ~{PT8qNJLb~} To: xys@uiuc.edu Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:26:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: shif (Shi-min Fang) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1139 Status: RO ~{SP9XiOi-Jw5DDGF*1(5@#,KdJGNRP45D#,5+TZ7"1mG08wN;6M0QUK6MBdAKOB3KAK#,>MOsR*1H=OA=8v~}web ~{0f1>5DSEAS#,K52;3vKyRTH;@4#,V;;aR;6xTYTY6xH}5X9%;w1pHKGV78AK0fH(~} ~{R;Qy!#~} ~{NRTZMxIO5DPT8q#,R22;JG5=OVTZ2ESP5D!#OVTZHg4K#,H}DjG0R2Hg4K!#H}Dj~} ~{G0NRLaRi440lPBSoK?J1#,>MSPHKK5NR@b=G7VCwRWSZ5CWoHK#,?VEB3I2;AKJB!#~} ~{H}Dj@4NR5DMxIOPT8q2"N^K?:A8D1d#,PBSoK?KF:uR22"C;SPRr4K=-:SHUOB#,~} ~{TuC4NR5DPT8qOVTZ746x3IAKNJLb#?~} ~{3I9&5D1`<-#,2"7G>MR;6(JG@O:CHK!#NRHOJ65D1`<-VPSP@bSP=G8vPT7VCw5D~} ~{6`5CJG!#:N?vNRTY3e#,R2;9C;SP3e5=JW4NSkHKM(5g;0#,R;?*?Z>MR*8zHK1H~} ~{K-8|6.RUJu8|6.Ih5D3I9&#,2;TZSZJG7qD\9;Sk<8N;MxIOC{HK8c:C9XO5!#9c4sMxVZ5D~} ~{2NSk!"V'3VJG8|N*VXR*5D!#~} ~{1`<-2?@o?IRTSP2;M,PT8q5DHK#,V;R*1'WE92M,0QTSV>0l:C5DD?5D#,?*3O2<9+#,~} ~{2;8cP!6/Ww#,6_5DHK!#UbR;5c#,NRTZH%~} ~{DjKDTB7]>MRQK59}#,2;TYVX84!#~} ~{7=V[WS~} From zpzhang@math.Princeton.EDU Sun Jan 19 23:39 EST 1997 Received: from vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (vortex.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.12]) by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA18193 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:39:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by vortex.cso.uiuc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA55112 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:38:47 -0600 Received: